yeah see this is why when I was there and Israelis asked me my opinions on Israeli politics them getting an answer out of me was like pulling teeth. I said I dont have a right to an opinion because I dont live there and I dont have to deal with the consequences of the policies I advocate.
I mean these guys definitely have a valid point. there's a shit ton of money being spent fighting with the palestinians that would certain be better spent developing southern towns and the negev region in general.
Still I dont think its right to blame the Israeli government entirely for that because the stinkers in gaza are doing their best to make the status quo untenable for the Israelis. I also dont think its entirely fair to say the majority of Israelis support the actions in gaza. Its more like they grudgingly aquiesce to its necessity. still I would never say things like that to their faces.
I dont agree with those american jews who think they have as much right to say what should happen in Israel as Israelis do. I dont think they do. I dont think I do. I think the only people who should be allowed to decide are the ones who have to put their money where their mouth is. and one thing you realize when you spend time over there is that none of these issues is anywhere near as simple as it tends to look from this side of the pond.
During the five years I lived in Israel I was well aware of the complexities of the situation (there's always a situation). What is universal when it comes to terrorists is that they want to provoke a response, and it is not necessarily wise to take the bait.
Hamas wants to raise its own profile and popularity among the Palestinians on the West Bank (those in Gaza are increasingly fed up with them but are powerless to oppose them), and prevent the Palestinian Authority from negotiating with Israel. My own view is that Israel's top priority is to negotiate and sign a peace deal with the PA; without a two state solution soon Israel will be replaced by a bi-national state. For that reason I think the Israeli government should focus on and not let itself be diverted from that goal by Hamas' rockets. Israel is also passing up the opportunity to exploit the division within Hamas between those who are willing to agree to a two state solution and those who vehemently oppose it. The only good I can see emerging from the war in Gaza is that it might increase the center-left's votes in the Feb 10 election and prevent Bibi Netanyahu (who opposes a two state solution) from forming the next government. As soon as the IDF withdraws from Gaza Hamas will rebuild the tunnels and start rearming. The PA's new Jordanian trained army will not be strong enough to take Gaza back from Hamas for several more years. 27 years ago Israel should have insisted that Egypt take back Gaza as a condition for signing the peace treaty.
well I'm with you on a good chunk of this. But I dont think hamas has calculated this nearly as thoroughly as you give them credit for. their attitudes and decisions have been very amateurish. they have yet to come to terms with the fact that they are no longer in the opposition and that as actual government officials within the establishment now they dont have the luxury of their previous attitudes and opinions. I that they miscalculated at least as badly as the israelis on this one...I dont think they expected the response they got. also egypt is smarter than you give them credit for. they would have considered forcing them to retain control of gaza to be a dealbreaker. "no way jose, gaza is your problem now" they said. they pretty much immediately renounced all claims on it after the 78 accords were signed.
If left to their own devices and cleverly thwarted from reaching Israeli targets I think hamas would tear itself apart and become a nonentity within a couple of years.
oh by the way that video you posted is making waves. I posted it in a comment on politicsforum in response to a guy suggesting Israelis should put pressure on their government and hold them accountable. a california hippy who watched it said those are the most eloquent protestors he's ever seen, and he's seen quite a lot in his day. furthermore it transpires that the first protestor interviewed, a guy named Jonathan, is a good friend of my friend shari, who was herself at the demonstration in question.
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Date: 2009-01-10 12:28 am (UTC)I mean these guys definitely have a valid point. there's a shit ton of money being spent fighting with the palestinians that would certain be better spent developing southern towns and the negev region in general.
Still I dont think its right to blame the Israeli government entirely for that because the stinkers in gaza are doing their best to make the status quo untenable for the Israelis. I also dont think its entirely fair to say the majority of Israelis support the actions in gaza. Its more like they grudgingly aquiesce to its necessity. still I would never say things like that to their faces.
I dont agree with those american jews who think they have as much right to say what should happen in Israel as Israelis do. I dont think they do. I dont think I do. I think the only people who should be allowed to decide are the ones who have to put their money where their mouth is. and one thing you realize when you spend time over there is that none of these issues is anywhere near as simple as it tends to look from this side of the pond.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-11 12:01 am (UTC)Hamas wants to raise its own profile and popularity among the Palestinians on the West Bank (those in Gaza are increasingly fed up with them but are powerless to oppose them), and prevent the Palestinian Authority from negotiating with Israel. My own view is that Israel's top priority is to negotiate and sign a peace deal with the PA; without a two state solution soon Israel will be replaced by a bi-national state. For that reason I think the Israeli government should focus on and not let itself be diverted from that goal by Hamas' rockets. Israel is also passing up the opportunity to exploit the division within Hamas between those who are willing to agree to a two state solution and those who vehemently oppose it. The only good I can see emerging from the war in Gaza is that it might increase the center-left's votes in the Feb 10 election and prevent Bibi Netanyahu (who opposes a two state solution) from forming the next government. As soon as the IDF withdraws from Gaza Hamas will rebuild the tunnels and start rearming. The PA's new Jordanian trained army will not be strong enough to take Gaza back from Hamas for several more years. 27 years ago Israel should have insisted that Egypt take back Gaza as a condition for signing the peace treaty.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-11 12:45 am (UTC)If left to their own devices and cleverly thwarted from reaching Israeli targets I think hamas would tear itself apart and become a nonentity within a couple of years.
oh by the way that video you posted is making waves. I posted it in a comment on politicsforum in response to a guy suggesting Israelis should put pressure on their government and hold them accountable. a california hippy who watched it said those are the most eloquent protestors he's ever seen, and he's seen quite a lot in his day. furthermore it transpires that the first protestor interviewed, a guy named Jonathan, is a good friend of my friend