how important is it that your partner/spouse share your passions?

[davidfcooper]

On Saturday after synagogue we went out for lunch, then went on a long walk ending up at the Brooklyn Heights promenade where we sat and talked before going to a social engagement at the home of friends whose apartment overlooks the harbor.

We talked about our personality differences and where our interests differ and overlap. We concluded that had we met under different circumstances (we were both rather isolated when we met) we probably would not have married and the thing we share most now is a common history.

We identified each of our three main passions and there was no overlap. Shoshana's are food, visual arts, and laughter; mine are sex, language, and the life of the mind. Shoshana's three passions are all enthusiasms of mine, but not my main passions. As for mine, Shoshana enjoys sex but doesn't think about it except when she's doing it or about to, sort of like someone who never thinks about food unless it's put in front of her or unless she's hungry (she also considers the details of other people's sex lives as Too Much Information); she lacks the facility for language to develop much enthusiasm for it: she's an avid reader but reads for content not language (though one of her passions, humor, is often language based); and finally though she is quite intelligent she is not an intellectual and never will be: if I want to have an intelligent conversation with her it has to be in an area of her expertise and interest (transportation, urban planning, disaster planning--especially hurricanes, modern art, sports, politics, and Judaic studies--especially ritual and halacha). It's frustrating that while I discuss her passions knowledgeably and with enthusiasm she doesn't reciprocate, and it makes me feel lonely.

I've screened this post friends only and invite all who read it to comment.

Comments

[weret-hekau.livejournal.com]

Everybody was shocked that I wound up with a guy like my husband. Sometimes it seems we have nothing in common. (which isn't really true but there are plenty of differences, a few of which are big and many of which are the sort of thing you talk of here....) As different as we are though, we share some important values.

We've been together 22 years now, and neither of us was isolated or young or naive or anything like that when we met. He was married and divorced several years already and I was quite the party girl at the time, very popular and dating regularly. (in other words....we both had plenty of choices)

How did we wind up together? I'm not even sure. *grin* But I have decided that "soulmates" (and I think we have more than one soulmate in life....not necessarily all of a romantic nature....and it might be best not to rely on one person for everything we need) are not the people most like you but the people that help you grow the most. Greg and I are a good balance in some strange way. People usually say to me "Opposites attract" but we're not really opposite in some very important ways as I mentioned before. (we're both very trustworthy and loyal and responsible and reliable, we share similar attitudes when it comes to things like paying bills, we were sexually compatible, we are "live and let live" kind of people, etc. and so on -- and these things obviously help a marriage work)

Having said all that....I do understand what you're talking about because I find I tend to look to my friends for certain things I cannot get from my husband, particularly the sorts of conversations you mention. Greg is intelligent enough, but if he's not interested in something, he's not interested. He doesn't even pretend and he really can't be bothered to reciprocate. And if I have a thirst for something, I need to feed that need. (i'm having a flash of deja vu....did I have this conversation with someone recently? This topic may not be uncommon.)

[butterflymama3.livejournal.com]

I think shared passions certainly help to strengthen a union and to bind it together. That being said, I don't think that a couple needs to have all the same interests/passions. That isn't healthy. A mix of the two, I think is best. Jeff and I both are passionate about reading, cooking, wine, family, jewish life, and a bunch of other things but we also have a number of things that we don't share together but can talk about and share with one another. I enjoy crafts of most kinds (knitting, scrapbooking, card making, jewelry making, etc) while he can't stand that stuff. He appreciates and understands what I do. He is into Fantasy Sports and I can't be bothered with it all but I take the time to listen to him talk about it and try to ask intelligent questions. I hope that helps or makes sense at least.

not necessarily what you'd expect me to say

[bethr.livejournal.com]

mine are sex, language, and the life of the mind

How bitter the irony. Perhaps it would be easier all around if your wife's passions were computers, finance, and geopolitics?

Yes, of course people can be very happy together with not that much superficially in common. But I don't think you can compare one relationship against another in this regard. It feels like you are obliquely looking for advice, and no one else lives in your house or shares your history, or knows your private world---or, lack of, in this case.

I won't go on here, but when I hear about a lot of your interactions, what pains me is not the lack of superficial commonalities, but that the two of you lack an "inner world" where you both inhabit. In my own marriage, we have a perfectly fine inner world, which is constantly shattered by the fact that our perceptions of how to "manage" the outside world differ so radically that we often can't live under the same roof.

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

It's frustrating that while I discuss her passions knowledgeably and with enthusiasm she doesn't reciprocate, and it makes me feel lonely.

It's the part about reciprocating that's a flag for me. You don't have to share passions, but is she interested at all in the things that fascinate you? Is it important for her even to make the attempt? Does she mind hearing you ramble on excitedly or ranting? Or do you feel like she's just saying "yes, dear" and waiting for you to shut up? If the answers are not what you would like them to be, are there still other ways in which you connect deeply at some level that you find emotionally nourishing?

[sagefemme11.livejournal.com]

If she were your mirror, your carbon copy, from where would your inspiration eminate?

Different passions are good, enjoying things together is also good, but there are others that can share things with you without threatening or detracting from your relationship with your wife.

I try to stay focused on the celebration of what I CAN share with that very different husband of mine and share other things with my other beloved people.

Namaste,
Windi

[bethr.livejournal.com]

What I also find painful is her mis/use of the fact that he and I happen to share all the same passions that she doesn't.

I do not particularly enjoy having my name used as a weapon against his fidelity, her own self-esteem, their marriage, and ultimately her putting me into the box of "ugly-by-their-shared-aesthetic-standards-but-so-brainy-and-ragingly-sexual-that-he-is-somehow-able-to-avert-his-eyes-from-my-squatness".

[luckycee.livejournal.com]

Jim and I often joke about having nothing in common except our values. We tend to see the world in similar ways, and in that way we face it together. But we don't share any interests at all.

He would also list sex first on his list of passions. And I would not. But I would list food high on my list, and he would not.

If I want to discuss the piano, poetry, the finer points of language, etc., I pretty much have to do that here on LJ. But I talk about them anyway, just like Jim talks about his work and hobbies to me, even though they don't hold any fascination for me.

He'll go out and work on his plane. I'll stay in and play the piano or read. We'll get together later and talk about it and go to dinner and pick up stuff at Walmart.

When it comes to the things that matter most to each of us (family, for example) we're in complete accord. So it's perfectly okay with me.

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

*nod* Can't blame you there. And really, even if you disappeared from his life tomorrow, the issues he's talking about would still exist.

[spasmsproject.livejournal.com]

"It's frustrating that while I discuss her passions knowledgeably and with enthusiasm she doesn't reciprocate, and it makes me feel lonely."

Have you discussed this?

Rob and I are total opposites, but we each make the effort to be indulgent of one another's passions and try to participate in them as best we can.

he lacks the facility for language to develop much enthusiasm for it

[ragecarnuu.livejournal.com]

Not following what you mean by language

[bug-girlx.livejournal.com]

It's not that important, it is nice, but not a make or break thing in a relationship. There are other more important things like moral values, I find these to be most important. But, it differs for everyone. Look for other friends who share those interests, but not "sex", LOL.

Re: not necessarily what you'd expect me to say

[virtual-rabbi.livejournal.com]

This strikes me as wisdom. I'd like to have heard about shared values instead of passions. Kids make a big difference, too, and yeat I didn't hear anything about that. Working on raising the next generation can provide a shared challenge. Maintaining an attitude of loneliness without acceoting responsibility for that is an emotionaslly painful place to stay. It might be more pleasant if David's partner shared his passions, but it need not be so painful. Also, I don't think discussions of this sort are terrible helpful. Why not spend an hour celebraing the other by finding ways they are alike.

Ben

Re: not necessarily what you'd expect me to say

[bethr.livejournal.com]

I know them better than anyone else reading this, and have watched, and observed, much. (They do not have children, nor pets even, btw.) And their situation is far more complex than can, or should, be discussed here. So yes, all the emphasis on positivity is great, but doesn't take into account things you don't see on the surface.

[bethr.livejournal.com]

Yes, we have discussed this. Often.

Re: not necessarily what you'd expect me to say

[davidfcooper.livejournal.com]

Since Ben asked, for the record we do not have kids because my wife 1) does not want any and 2) has a hormonal condition whose remedy is oral contraception (we don't have pets because of allergies). As for values, apart from the issue of kids we are on the same page wrt money, religion/ethics, and politics. Other ways we are alike? Temperamentally we're both quiet introverted intuitives (but OTOH she's a thinker and I'm a feeler, she's goal oriented and I'm process oriented), we have similar body types, we both maintain fitness regimens and are health conscious pescetarians. I've already mentioned that her passions are also my enthusiasms, but this brings us back to the pain I feel because of her inability to reciprocate. Others have made the point that no other individual can fulfill all of one's needs, but neither of us is a social butterfly and there are only so many hours in the day and days in the week, not to mention managing feelings of jealosy.

Re: he lacks the facility for language to develop much enthusiasm for it

[davidfcooper.livejournal.com]

A delight in human language both spoken and written--language not just as a communication tool but something beautiful and sublime which is to be celebrated for its own sake.

[anamacha.livejournal.com]

it's not fantastically important that your partner SHARE your the same passions that you have -- but IMO you need to be able to talk about them back and forth. I'm not that interested in beading, but I'll listen to gina talk about it because it's interesting to her, and she's passionate about it. Similarly, she makes an effort to express some interest in the things that I'm passionate about.

It concerns me that as per your 2d to last tsentence, you're willing to discuss her passions, but she's not reciprocating -- and the whole arrangement makes you feel lonely. Perhaps this is indicative of greater problems?

Re: not necessarily what you'd expect me to say

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

not to mention managing feelings of jealosy

If there is something that you find important to share which you are not getting from her, I would suggest that it is up to her to manage her own jealousy issues if you get them met elsewhere, as long as you are not breaking any agreements.

Re: not necessarily what you'd expect me to say

[virtual-rabbi.livejournal.com]

I get that this is not simple. And that is an interesting "should," since this is, after all, a publicly viewable blog.

A long time ago, I wrote:

The Unilateral Heart, Closing

For a few bright weeks, I was shining
like a star. Now I am like you
negotiating peace, but afraid of love.
Wearing your wristwatch to bed,
never quite naked before me,
our pasts strapped to a roadmap
of drunken sheets, this hellish
season of someone else's timetable
as though we had sinned against
your ageing ex-lover, wild
and dissolute, like Rimbaud,
limping off to colonize Africa,
illuminated between us like a flag,
flying in this desert, unable
to be discussed, impossible to ignore.

Re: not necessarily what you'd expect me to say

[bethr.livejournal.com]

perhaps you should get in touch with David privately to understand a little more about the "shoulds."

PS Have you guys met in person yet? If you haven't, do!

PPS I'm flattered you friended me, and have done so in return. But you must win my trust before you get on any of the really interesting filters!

Re: not necessarily what you'd expect me to say

[davidfcooper.livejournal.com]

You're right, Laurie, but that doesn't make this emotionally any easier for those concerned.

Re: not necessarily what you'd expect me to say

[davidfcooper.livejournal.com]

A fine poem, Ben; thanks.

Re: not necessarily what you'd expect me to say

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

I know. :-/ It's one of those things where the only way out is through. The rub is always whether the jealous person is interested in making it through or in avoiding the issue in hopes that it will go away, and in whether the non-jealous person can live with the latter in case the former doesn't happen.

I wonder if her reaction would be the same if you shared your top three passions with, say, a male friend? With another woman who wasn't Beth? Is she afraid you will leave her over this issue? Is she more upset that she doesn't share these things, or that you are bothered by the not-sharing?

You don't have to answer these questions, btw. I don't mean to interrogate you. I just find myself curious from a few standpoints, mainly relationship geeking and as someone who's gone through marital counseling (and eventual divorce). I wish you both well. *hug*

Re: not necessarily what you'd expect me to say

[davidfcooper.livejournal.com]

I emailed you my answers, Laurie.

Re: not necessarily what you'd expect me to say

[virtual-rabbi.livejournal.com]

i thought it might speak to the situation you were describing. In any case, so much depends upon a red wheelbarrow. BP